Talk:AGW-Axis War
Yes remove it from this war. This war started solely because of one person who decided to attack someone for a tech raid and then extort that nation, Hindustania, for $3 million. Hindustania attacked in self-defence and when it came to the talk of reparations, he requested $12 million in reps as an initial estimate for the losses he suffered at the hands of Notalldude as a result of this tech raid. This article is heavily one sided and biased.--TrevelyanL85A2 22:04, 21 June 2008 (UTC) I have never even heard of this war. Is it really notable enough to warrant a place on the war timeline? Drgumbofunk 18:53, 24 May 2008 (UTC) Yea remove it from the timeline. In light of the fact that the allainces of the so called "confederation" find themselves under attack as a group directly after all nations involved in this conflict peaced out, I think this is certainly notable enough. I suggest removing the page. Somebody keeps editing it in such a way that it contains bias and distorted information along with events that did not actually occur. It's just going to turn into a "No you" page. Somebody has also locked the article for apparently no reason. This article is in need of a serious clean up as half of the material posted is either distorted/half truths or blatant fiction (especially the anarchy notes). A record of the article prior to the distortion and half truths exists here http://agw.bombs-away.net/showpost.php?p=999251&postcount=122 and is below Wiki on the War, 9:00PM May 26, 2008. This is about as close as it has gotten it so far, so I will consider it definitive. Again, Not the war the drums were beating for. \\ In early May 2008, Notatalldude of the AGW Overlords tech raided King Match of The Guard. He soon found himself being messaged by their allies The Buccaneers, Hell-Fighters and Delta Force to offer peace and reparations. This was a typical exchange: * To: Notatalldude From: Morgaine 5/1/2008 1:02:17 PM Subject: Unprovoked attack upon King Match You will offer peace and reparations to my ally immediately. * To: Morgaine From: Notatalldude 5/1/2008 1:39:02 PM Subject: RE: Unprovoked attack upon King Match Lawl, that's assuming he makes no moves at all towards me, and if he does make no moves or attacks on me then I'll think about it. And: * To: sharpshooter From: Notatalldude 5/1/2008 1:46:27 PM Subject: RE: War of Agrerssion on Armalitia My reason - I raid. That's how I gain strength and extra supplies. Some poeple prefer peace but for me war provides a better flavor and makes it more fun. What can be done to stop this war - Well if you'd like I will offer peace right now, NO REPS. * To: Notatalldude From: sharpshooter 5/1/2008 1:55:48 PM Subject: RE: War of Agrerssion on Armalitia Armalitia is a member of the alliance known as The Guard of which I am a member. I would appreciate it very much if you would cease hostilities , but reps will be needed as you started the war and the country in question is alligned. * To: sharpshooter From: Notatalldude 5/1/2008 3:09:48 PM Subject: RE: War of Agrerssion on Armalitia I'd probably have considered reps and peace, however now that Morgaine, or whatever he is has been so rude and impolite towards me via PM, I don't think I will do reps. The Guard and their allies were increasingly agitated at this sort of dialog and wondered if Notatalldude would have conducted himself in such a manner with a larger alliance. Looking at the publicly accessible part of their forums, Notalldude was discussing attacking Cemicolin of Delta Force a month earlier: http://www.agwoverlords.com/wars-to-date-t13.html This quote from him was especially of concern to the affiliates: "...he's also in only a very small 12 person alliance, in the past I've tech raided two nations of the alliance and didn't have a problem getting away with it..." Such exchanges made the affiliates wonder what sort of alliance would allow such a person in their ranks. King Match was submitted an itemized bill of $943,550.83 and Notatalldude counter-offered $500K. King Match then said privately to his allies, "Let me be clear - I am perfectly willing to fight this guy. I would PREFER to fight this guy if it weren't for the fact I don't want to drag the rest of The Guard into it." After 4 days of negotiations comments like this: "...but the idea is that The Guard, is 8 dudes. And it has a protectorate, from 14 dudes. xD 22 in total, and none are very strong at all. The point would be, if my alliance weren't as nice as it is, that I'd just continue warring, but they're nice, and so am I...", Notatalldude offered an aid and tech package valued at $933,961.20 -- 98.98% of the total that was submitted to him. King Match accepted it. Notatalldude's reparation offer included this comment: "Youre lucky Im nice." Given that he was messaged by members of The Guard, Delta Force, The Buccaneers and Hell-Fighters while negotiations were ongoing, Notatalldude should have known that his victim had extended ties. They therefore interpreted his subsequent act of aggression to mean that he -- and possibly his alliance -- mistook their restraint for lack of resolve. this was a misunderstanding or a fair assumption is a matter of perspective. On May 16, he attacked Hindustania, the largest member of Delta Force, an alliance of 31 members. It is important to note that it is composed of nations 2500-5000 nation strength. Notatalldude's earlier "didn't have a problem getting away with it" comment concerning raiding Delta Force twice before thus explains the mindset undergirding this message: To: Sanjay Ardyash Manoj From: Notatalldude 5/16/2008 4:55:35 PM Subject: Tell ya' what.. If you send me 3 million dollars in aid then I'll offer peace. I am saving for a Manhattan Project, but yeah, send 3 mil by the morning or I continue attacking, and if you take a look at my military efficiency compared to yours, you'll realize that if I want, I can anarchy you in one day. On 5/17 Hindustania switched from Delta Force to their affiliate The Buccaneers because it was more compatible with nations in his strength range -- something that would have been done whether he was at war or not. Diplomatic attempts were made on behalf of Hindustania by his allies to obtain peace and reps for the raid and extortion. Meanwhile, Hindustania chose to attempt an in-game spy attack upon Notatalldude: 5/18/2008 10:24:16 PM Green Hindustania Ruler: Sanjay Ardyash Manoj The Buccaneers Blue Notatalldude Ruler: Notatalldude AGW overlords Incite Religious Propaganda Complete Failure Aid was sent to Hindustania while negotiations were underway in cease-fire with the hopes of facilitating his own defense, thus avoiding the necessity of adding more nations to the conflict. * 5/19/2008 4:29:58 AM "Slap him with my dongs" Blue Beloved Ruler: RKANYZ The Corps Green Hindustania Ruler: Sanjay Ardyash Manoj The Buccaneers $3,000,000 0 Tech 2000 Soldiers * 5/19/2008 3:35:36 PM "I agree with rkanyz" Red Sol Republic Ruler: Scyrcio The Corps Green Hindustania Ruler: Sanjay Ardyash Manoj The Buccaneers $3,000,000 0 Tech 2000 Soldiers Privately, the confederation debated what to do next. Some argued for restraint: "with the aid that he's gotten and the fact that there are two other nations engaged with this attacker, Sanjay should be able to handle this." But Morath of ----- said "I disagree, respectably; the nation of notatalldude has received more aid and has more infrastructure, more technology and has also claimed to possess 50 million dollars on the CN forums." Note that Notatalldude's statement was posted a day after he attacked Sanjay: http://forums.cybernations.net/index...howtopic=22999 Frustrated by the lack of progress after 4 days of negotiations, Morath on his own elected to leave his alliance, join The Buccaneers and attack Notatalldude on May 20. Meanwhile, on May 19, another AGW Overlord member Llewellyn attacked Cathyy, a non-aligned nation who had been a member of the same confederation of independent nations and small alliances to which Sanjay and King Match belonged since May 8 2008. when non-aligned members of their confederation are attacked, only limited measures are taken; messages sent, coaching during, rebuilding afterward, etc. Such is the trade off for pure sovereignty and security. However, given recent history with Notatalldude, the confederation decided that his alliance poses a danger to them and the community at large. Therefore some, but not all, affiliated alliances within the confederation decided to forgo any further negotiations and immediately engage Llewellyn as well as any new AGW Overlord nations that attacked. AGW Overlords then came to to defend the tech-raiders Llewellyn and Notatalldude, claiming that they were the ones who were being victimized. As they added nations to the conflict, so did members of the affiliated alliances The Guard, Delta Force, The Buccaneers and Hell-Fighters. Both sides in this conflict showed admirable restraint by confining military operations to those actually engaged. There was no collective punishment of nations for simply bearing the wrong alliance affiliation. Those who elected to stay out of the war were left alone. Two members of other alliances joined the conflict. Morath of "-----" and Conscience of The Corps took leaves of absences from their alliances to join The Buccaneers to fight alongside them. No other members of these alliances joined the conflict or gave aid once it went "hot." While this was ongoing, several of the combatants received this message: To: ________ From: ________ 5/21/2008 8:05:00 PM Subject: My thoughts Greetings My name is ______ and I'm in the AGWOverlords. Everyone in this alliance are real life friends who have known each others over 10 years. The exception is notalldood. He is the only person none of us really know, and he recently joined our Alliance. He has been the subject of much turmoil. I hold no official office in the Alliance. I believe notalldood was 100% wrong when he attacked hindu a few days ago. When I saw this attack, I asked him on our forums if he should perhaps look for another alliance. I don't want to fight in this war, and I believe there are others in AGW who feel the same way. I want AGW to be an alliance that is built on respect and friendship, not on crud like this. I'm going to post this message on our forums, and maybe things can settle down. If possible, please let your Alliances know that not all of AGWers condone this behavior. I hope smarter minds can fix this situation quickly. I will be sending this message to several folks in your alliance.